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Topic for Sept/Oct - Immigration, Population and Environment

    • 97 posts
    September 17, 2018 11:54 AM BST

    The focus of this topic is Immigration but taking into account factors such as Population Growth and the Environment including Land Usage for Building, Agriculture etc. 


    Suggested Agenda is:

    Immigration, Population Growth and the Environment

    As this is a potentially very wide subject, we need to scope what we talk about. The ultimate objective is to arrive at ideas for what should be included as part of the new immigration policy the Government is due to deliver.

    It is therefore scoped by time, as shown against each heading, since the earlier topics do affect the context of what we might come up with. This is likely to mean that we need to make some assumptions, which can then be examined in more detail at another time.  


    What are the key facts we need to know to make sensible decisions in this arena?

    Land and Environment – 15 mins

    What aspects of the environment and infrastructure place constraints on the level of immigration we can sustain?

    What is a sustainable balance for land usage between population/accommodation, agriculture, forestry, water, environment etc. and needs of people for business. How does this impact on and balance with quality of life? Will climate change affect this?

    Should we do a Hong Kong?

    What actions might we take as a result?

    Population Growth – 15 mins

    What level of population growth are we running at, are we able to manage development of the necessary infrastructure in line with this growth? Is there enough room for the current level of growth to be sustainable given the conclusions on this and on Land and Environment?

    What actions might we take as a result?

    Immigration Numbers – 20 mins

    Why do people want to come to the UK? What are the deciding factors? Are these different between Europe and rest of world?

    ? General attractiveness of UK compared to other countries: Standard of living, Equality of opportunity, Benefit buffer, Lifestyle, Diversity, Free speech, Freedom under law, Tolerance including religious, English Language, Experience, Studying?

    Why is there net immigration?

     ?right to bring dependents, more children in other cultures

    ? number of people who can stay permanently

    Do we need more people?

    For business

    Seasonal workers

    Cheap labour

    Skills shortages

    Supply and Demand

    Effect on competition for jobs and effect on wages. Permanent, Part-time, Temporary, Zero hours, Weekend and Holiday Jobs

    Contract Working v Permanent Residency

    Does focus on GDP growth help or hinder

    To maintain population (birth rates etc)

    Impact on Dependency Ratio

    Will automation and AI reduce the need for more workers and therefore the need for immigration. If we start to see net job losses in 20 years-time what impact will this have on supporting the anticipated population. Are we building a future problem through constant net migration?   

    Should students be part of immigration figures?

    Is it right to rob other countries of their skills e.g. nurses, doctors

    What actions might we take as a result?

    Immigration Factors – 30 mins

    What are the Pros of immigration as we have known it?

    Business & economy, diversity and understanding of other cultures, less insular world,………………..

    What are the Cons of immigration as we have known it?

    Lack of management of impacts on infrastructure and property prices, perceived and real impact on ability of UK citizens to get a job. Lack of integration of some communities in certain areas of country exacerbated by lack of congregation across communities both in jobs and socially. Perceptions in some areas that things are weighted towards immigrants rather than indigenous population. Increased racism and ‘inverted racism’ as a result of perceptions of all these things.

    Reduced quality of life

    Living in smaller and smaller homes

    Impact on mental health

    More high-rise living

    Cities v countryside

    Empty properties bought for investment (especially in cities)

    There hasn’t been sufficient incentive to look after and develop our own worst off/least educated

    Is British culture strengthened or diminished by immigration? Are ethics and morals affected? What is the effect on religion in the UK? How is democracy and voting affected? Has political correctness in this arena been good or bad?

    How should we address the issues and strengthen the pros?

    Immigration Policy – 40 mins

    What elements should be in our future immigration policy?

    Is there anything we can learn from other countries immigration policies e.g. Australia?

    What do we want from other countries for our own citizens?

    Should it be necessary to have a job before coming? Should right to work be directed to particular regions?

    How do we ensure, in a simple fashion, that people leave who don’t have the right to stay?

    Are there any aspects of EU free movement that we want to retain?

    Should we have a National Identity Card (Belgian politician recently cited ability to establish self in UK without proof of identity as one of attractions of UK)

    What actions might we take as a result?








    • 97 posts
    October 31, 2018 10:16 AM GMT

    Output from the Pie and Pint discussion on this topic is now available at http://www.probably42.net/documents/2/48/migration-population-growth-and-the-environment